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hi everybody josh barley once again here

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in mission control houston i'm joined by

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a very special guest today this is phil

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engeloff a uh former flight director

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here at the uh nasa johnson space center

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with all the celebration this week of

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john glenn's 50th anniversary of

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orbiting the earth

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you know he also flew a certain space

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shuttle mission sts 95 and phil was

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actually the lead flight director uh for

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that mission so phil talk a little bit

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about

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you know it's been a number of years

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since that flight but what do you

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remember about it and senator glenn you

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know it was really kind of interesting

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to be associated with that mission

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because i kind of grew up you know right

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in that era when uh

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john glenn's flight sort of steered a

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lot of us kids into our interest in the

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space program and for me personally it

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was really a big deal to to have the

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honor of being a flight director on a

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mission with this national icon of human

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space flight at the same time there was

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this huge contrast because it was a

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really very intense mission from a

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science standpoint and and it was really

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challenging

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to get everything scheduled so we had

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this this uh sort of sweet and sour

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contrast of all of this media attention

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and hype about this national hero flying

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against this backdrop of a lot of really

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hard work to get done in a short period

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of time yeah there was certain things

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that actually had to be done during the

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flight even with everything going on you

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know it was it was it was an intense

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mission that was back in 1998 right

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that's right so talk about some of the

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training you know whenever you were

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assigned as the lead flight director for

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the mission was senator glenn already

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assigned to it or did that happen

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afterward like what was the timing of it

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yes uh it was kind of a conjunction of

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activities for me i had been heavily

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involved in the shuttle mirror program

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and we had just really completed uh that

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shuttle mirror program and there were

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some personnel changes going on inside

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the flight director office and i sort of

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inherited the flight in mid-stream i

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became available and somebody else moved

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up in the management chain so i i sort

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of inherited it and john glenn had

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was just becoming attached to that

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flight and as you alluded to the flight

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sort of already had an identity with

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some of the payloads with the spartan

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activities and the addition of john

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glenn to the crew

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sort of changed the complexion of the

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flight and i had to sort of step in as

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the new flight director assigned and

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tried to uh meld all these pieces

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together into a coherent mission and it

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was uh it was it was quite an experience

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we did a behind-the-scenes episode a

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couple years ago during one of the the

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shuttle missions and we talked to the

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training team and one of them was on the

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team that trained senator glenn and the

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rest of the 95 crew

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and they were laughing it was a true

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story but they were talking about how

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senator glenn commented about you know

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the checklist that he had

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back during his flight his original

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flight was probably a page page and a

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half long and now here we have these you

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know volumes of three-ring binders and

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how um how things can change so talk a

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little bit about how the training was a

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little bit different for the crew and

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some of his comments about that

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it really was very intensive and and

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it's sort of um i'd say divided into two

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different groups uh i actually spent the

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bulk of my time working with the core

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shuttle crew with commander kurt brown

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and pilot steve lindsey on the

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traditional operation of the vehicle and

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and the training that we normally do and

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then there was sort of this uh separate

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group of activities of the payload folks

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working on the payload experiments and

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of course we had john and shiakimukai

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and pedro duque and they had this whole

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suite of science experiments to go on

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back in the space hab and so those two

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things almost went on in parallel but at

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the same time the timing and scheduling

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had to be integrated so

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it was quite a challenge to get all of

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the training activities scheduled

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but then also the reality was that got

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complicated a little bit by the media

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attention because every time the crew

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would go over to building nine for some

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training event there'd be an army of

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media folks over there to videotape that

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and uh

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it was um i don't want to say it was a

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distraction but it added a level of

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challenge to everything

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well you know it's part of what we do

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here is to try to keep the public

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informed and and to convey what we do

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to uh to the stakeholders so it

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i don't want to downplay the importance

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of doing that but it did increase the

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level of difficulty well it's you know

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we see that with the high profile

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flights especially you know the last

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last few that we had ironically steve

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lindsey flew that very same shuttle

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again on its final on its final mission

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so uh

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you know discovery was a pretty

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important shuttle for him but talk about

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you know senator glenn you know there's

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a lot of reflection back on this flight

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you know the fact that it's been 50

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years you know whenever you look back at

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the sts-95 mission what's what's the one

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memory you walk away from is it is it

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the attention of the flight is it

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working with senator glenn

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the attention of the flight was a big

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thing obviously and people remember that

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as the john glenn flight and they don't

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really you know they can't remember

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there was some science that went on

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there but that gets lost but for me the

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thing that i took away as i said i sort

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of started out with my interest in the

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program

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when john flew in mercury

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and as you alluded to with the checklist

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here we were

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35 years later

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flying a 10-day missions with seven

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people on a reusable spacecraft doing

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just

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an eye-watering suite of science and to

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me that was very symbolic of the

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progress that we had managed to make in

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human space flight since john glenn flew

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the first time and i saw that in some

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way you know john glenn's first and his

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second flight to sort of putting

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bookends on an era of advancement that

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that's sort of the way i remember the

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flight so

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it's funny you mentioned you know how

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things have changed and how they've

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transitioned talk a little bit about

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what you're doing now with the

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commercial crew program because you're

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very active uh with that program which

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obviously nasa is working very hard on

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so what uh talk a little bit about that

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well that's right um you know we've come

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now to an era in space flight where the

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technology and the capability to do

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orbital space flight is within the grasp

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of commercial industry and in fairness i

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think it's been pointed out many times

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before that even the shuttle was built

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by industry it may have been sponsored

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and overseen by nasa but

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it's uh it's the engineering and talent

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out there in industry that makes this

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all happen

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as nasa turns our attention

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to

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exploration further away from earth

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you can see this transition happening of

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handing more and more duties over to

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industry and those are the kinds of

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things that are really going to enable

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the long-term

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uh deeper

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exploration of space traditionally as in

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the early days of the american space

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program

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the government

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used taxpayer funding to stand up

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capabilities that didn't exist they were

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doing it for the first time and a major

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program like apollo took huge taxpayer

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resources but today we have many

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industries that can support space flight

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we have telecommunication industries

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that can provide

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communications services on a commercial

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basis for not only nasa but other

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operators of space systems

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launch services exist for reasons other

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than launching government astronauts and

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payloads so you've built up this sort of

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infrastructure that can sustain a base

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and then nasa can advance

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by

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leveraging off of those capabilities and

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using the taxpayer investment to move

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beyond that point

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and my personal opinion is that's the

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way i see us getting to the moon or to

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mars is there will be infrastructure in

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place that can be utilized and lower

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the investment cost of the taxpayer to

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do the inherently government parts of

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exploration of space so i think the

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shift towards commercial activity is

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really an important enabler for future

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exploration well it's amazing the way

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things have changed in 50 years it

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doesn't seem like it's that long but

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things have radically changed over the

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last few few decades again when you look

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back at

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john glenn's

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mercury capsule lifting off on an atlas

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on a pretty spartan pad at

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at the time cape canaveral

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it was

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it's quite a bit different today to look

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at the infrastructure and the facilities

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and capabilities that we have we